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Time management is a perennial challenge in a hyperlinked world where you’re constantly being asked to do more and more with less and less time.
If you feel stressed and resent the pressure it all creates, you’re going to love today’s guest.
He’s the co-author of the award winning book: Juggling Elephants who has some practical, down-to-earth advice you can start using today to feel less stress and more accomplished.
He’s Jones Loflin.
What You’ll Discover About Time Management:
- The 3 most common ways we mismanage our time.
- Why we let ourselves get caught in time management traps.
- Why trying to do “everything” is like juggling elephants.
- How to graciously handle interruptions.
- 2 time management mindset changes that will improve your productivity.
- How to say “no” tactfully.
- And MUCH more.
Guest: Jones Loflin
Jones Loflin has made it his life’s work to deliver powerful ideas and practical solutions to individuals around the world so they can achieve more of what is most important to them.
In his 22 years as a speaker and trainer Jones has helped countless people regain confidence in their ability to achieve greater success in work and life.
He’s accomplished this by using his “3P Approach” of Powerful Ideas connected to Practical Solutions delivered with a Personal Approach. It’s an approach that has attracted the attention of organizations around the world. His client list includes Federal Express, Wal-Mart, Choice Hotels, Volkswagen, Bridgestone, Saudi Aramco and State Farm as well as the United States Navy and Air Force.
Prior to becoming an internationally-recognized speaker, Jones was an educator. His past work includes serving as the “Trainer of Trainers” for the best-selling book, Who Moved My Cheese?
As a way to expand the reach of his own message, Jones has also authored a number of books, including Juggling Elephants and his newest book, Always Growing. It’s a parable about one man’s search for solutions to the struggle of having too much do. The book is available in the US and over 14 countries.
Jones holds a BS and M.Ed. from North Carolina State University. He is a member of the National Speaker’s Association as well as the Association for Talent Development.
Jones is also active in his community and because of his commitment to improving the lives of others, he received the Distinguished Service Award by the Charlotte Jaycees.
Related Resources:
If you liked this interview, you might also enjoy our other archived Self-care and Wellness episodes.
Contact Jones and connect with him on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter.
Check out his book Juggling Elephants on Amazon and other fine online and brick-and-mortar booksellers.
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Time Management Secrets of Highly Successful People with Jones Loflin
Time management is a real bugaboo in our 24/7 hyperlinked world. And if you’ve ever felt like there’s never enough time to do everything you need to do and you hated the pressure it created, you are going to love today’s guest.
He’s the coauthor of the award-winning book, Juggling Elephants. He’s Jones Loflin.
This is Business Confidential Now with Hanna Hasl-Kelchner, helping you see business issues hiding in plain view that matter to your bottom line.
Jones Loflin has made it his life’s work to deliver powerful ideas and practical solutions to individuals around the world so that they can achieve more of what’s most important to them.
In his 22 years as a speaker and trainer, Jones has helped countless people regain confidence in their ability to achieve greater success in work and life. He’s accomplished this by using his three P approach of powerful ideas connected to practical solutions delivered with a personal approach.
It’s a system that’s attracted the attention of organizations around the world. His client list includes Federal Express, Walmart, Choice Hotels, Volkswagen, Bridgestone, Saudi Aramco; said State Farm, as well as the United States Navy and Air Force.
Prior to becoming an internationally recognized speaker, Jones was an educator. His past work included serving as the trainer of trainers for the bestselling book, Who Moved My Cheese? Maybe you’ve heard of it.
As a way to expand his own reach of his own message, Jones has also authored a number of books, including Juggling Elephants. You’ve got to love that title. It’s a parable about one man’s search for solutions to the struggle of having too much to do.
And haven’t we all been in that boat at one time or another? The book is available in the US, and in over 14 countries and of course, we have a link here on the episode page.
Jones holds an MS and a Master’s in Education from North Carolina State University, and he’s a member of the National Speakers Association, as well as the Association for Talent Development. Plus, he’s active in his community.
As a matter of fact, it’s because of his commitment to improving the lives of others that Jones has been awarded the Distinguished Service Award by the Charlotte Jaycees. I’m hopeful he can improve our lives as well today with his tips and insights about time management.
So, let’s bring him on now. Welcome to Business Confidential Now, Jones.
Well, thank you, Hanna. What a pleasure to be with you. I have enjoyed learning more about the amazing things that you do, especially I love the tagline that you have helping people see business issues hiding in plain view because certainly, managing our time is something we all think we’re pretty good at.
But we tend to find out that, well, maybe I’m not as great as I thought I was. So, I’m always look forward to the opportunities to maybe offer a tip or two to help people with work life satisfaction.
I am looking forward to your tips because time is something we always seem to run out of, and as much as people pursue money and you can always make more money, you can’t make more time.
And it seems to be a bigger issue than ever before because people are expecting instantaneous responses to emails and texts and even social media posts. So, where is it that you think we go wrong in managing our time, Jones?
Well, you just hit on one hand that I think is so common in today’s world, and that is technology. Now, I am certainly not one of those individuals who believes that technology is evil. Technology is technology.
And I love what Brian Tracy said and his amazing book, Eat That Frog, when he said technology should be a servant to us, not us a slave to it, and so often I think we do become those slaves to technology, to social media.
So, I think that’s the first thing is that we allow distractions like technology to guide our day or direct our day. How many of us have started our day, and we said, “Well, before I really get started on my first big thing today, I’ve just had to check my email real quickly?”
And then two hours later, we’re going, “Oh, wait a minute. I want to do something besides keep my head in my email all day.” So, I think technology is one thing. A second one is we don’t set limits.
You said at the beginning, we can’t create more time, but we sometimes live and work as if we have unlimited time, and so we don’t prioritize. We don’t try to find the most efficient way to do something.
And because of that, we’re constantly running out of time or finding that our time is scattered across so many different things that we’re not doing anything well.
And the third one among many, but I think the third one I see so often is that we tend to work from a task list instead of really focusing on our calendar and scheduling our events and activities on our calendar.
And because of that, when we look at that task list, our mind plays tricks on us. We could talk about that a little bit later, but our mind plays tricks on us and doesn’t really want us to work on some of what’s most important.
It’ll certainly want us to work on the urgent, but it won’t encourage us to work on those complex tasks and activities that would really help us get the results we want.
It’s so easy to procrastinate, and especially if something is complex as you say, there’s a tendency to put it off. I’ll get to that. I’ll get to it. I want to do this first because this way, I can check a few more things off my list to have a feeling of accomplishment, even though it’s not necessarily the big-ticket item.
Right. And again, well said, because our minds want things to be done. It’s an amazing phenomenon known as a Zeigarnik Effect in which our mind doesn’t like open loops.
So, when we look at our task list of 37 things as I say, then we look at it and our mind goes, “Oh, don’t work on that one. That one’s hard,” but you know what? You could finish that one in five minutes.
So, we tend to be drawn to finishing those quick things that do give off the endorphins of, “Wow, you did something,” but also, it’s what can cause us to go home at the end of the day and go, “Oh, I was so busy all day. I checked so many things off my list,” but I don’t feel like I accomplished anything of value that day.
So, it’s that conflict between busy and productive, huh?
Exactly. I think that’s what we often find because we’re just conditioned that if we’re busy, we must be doing something productive.
And it’s not necessarily true because we get on the hurricane of the urgent, and we don’t really focus on those tasks and activities that really would move our work forward and moves forward with our relationships and even with our own wellbeing.
And so, I think that’s what we find.
So, why do we let ourselves do that? How we get into these time binds, procrastinate, and then all of a sudden, there’s a fire under us? Why? Why do we do that?
How long is our show? Three hours? I think it’s very person specific. I think there’s always different reasons. In fact, I have a slide I use in one of my training programs on time management.
And it’s got like I think there’s 20 things listed up there. Some people would say, “Oh, I see what’s causing mine. It’s perfectionism or it’s procrastination.” Somebody else will say, “Hey, I need the whole list.”
“All 20 of them are the ones that are getting me in a bind,” but I think it comes down to things like for some people, they have a disease to please. They want to please everyone else, and they want to take care of everyone else’s needs. And so, they don’t tend to focus on what their needs are.
For some people, they do want it all. They don’t like the idea that they can’t get it all done. So, they try to cram as much as possible into a day, and so they just don’t think about the quality of what they’re getting done.
They’re just focused on the quantity side. So, I think it is very person specific, and I think asking that question is a start to improvement when you start thinking you can get it all done. It’s like juggling elephants.
You’ve got all these things that you’re physically, mentally, and emotionally trying to process, and it gets overwhelming to you. And then you tend to just say, “You know what? I’ve got 80 things I really ought to get done today.”
“If I work really hard, I’ll get five done. Whoopee. Now, I’ve still got 75.” And so, we just get overwhelmed, and we just start grabbing the first thing we can get done and hope that it all works out. And that’s just not an effective strategy when it comes to managing your time.
And especially when you have interruptions, How do you suggest we handle those?
Well, I think it depends on what the interruption is. First of all, if the interruption is electronic, we certainly have a great deal of control over electronic interruptions. We can turn off those notifications.
We can turn off the beeps and the chirps and the red buttons, or the red things that show up on our screen, whether it’d be a tablet or a phone. We can move our phone or our tablet or electronic devices out of eyesight so we can’t see them.
So, I think if it’s electronic, there’s some pretty strong opportunities to make some improvements, and sometimes in conversation with people, I’ll say, “How many times a day do you check your email?”
And some people will say, “Well, I check my email every 15 minutes, or every 30 minutes.” I go, “Why?” “Well, my boss expects me to.” I’m like, “Okay. Now if you’re in customer service or you’re in some area where, yes, there’s information coming at you very quickly that if you don’t process it, there could be a major consequence.”
“That’s one thing but many times we use email as a procrastination technique where our mind gets really deep into something and all of a sudden, we go, ‘Oh, wait a minute. Oh yeah, this is hard. Okay, I’m going to go do something easy.’”
So, I’m going to go check my email. Sometimes, it’s just being cognizant of paying attention to those distractions. If there are people distractions, then I think it’s a different situation.
I think in those situations, we’ve got to look at it. Why is that person interrupting me? We’ve got to start keeping a distractions log.
In fact, I encourage people to do that, to keep a distractions log for one day or especially for one week, but even just for one day, what is it that consistently takes you away from focusing on your most important task?
And once you start identifying that if it’s a person or persons, you might say, “Okay, did they have incomplete information? Do they need me to help them have greater confidence? Do I need to be less available?”
I encourage some people, if you really want to get a high mental activity done is get out of your work area. Go somewhere else. Ask if you can actually come in to work later that day instead of earlier, so you minimize those distractions.
So, I think it starts with what opportunity do I have to control or influence how much I’m going to be distracted by this person or electronics or whatever, and then taking whatever action you can.
Well, what about some of the listeners that are saying to themselves, “Well, I just can’t. I can’t.” What mindset change do they need to go through? What kick in the pants in order just to wake up and say yes, you can?
Sure, sure. The first one and I think this is the biggest one for many of us and myself, I mean, please understand. I am my own lifelong project and time management. I certainly don’t have it all together.
One of them is we just can’t get it all done. There are some things that we’re going to have to say, not going to happen or not going to happen now. It’s going to happen later.
A classic case of that is that if you were to come to my home in North Carolina right now, my lawn looks awful. There’s all kinds of weeds and different things there.
And what’s ironic about that is that I’m a former horticulture teacher. I used to teach people how to have these lush green lawns and how to have beautiful flowerbeds and those things. And my friends will kind of joke with me sometimes.
“Hey, Jones. Didn’t you used to be a horticulture teacher?” And I’m like, “Yes.” “So, why is your yard look so bad?” I’m like, “Well, I’m growing kids right now. I’ll grow grass later.”
And so, the whole idea there and that was one of those moments when I’m not normally witty, but I got it together, is that we have to make decisions about what’s most important now.
What do we not have the opportunity to do in the future that we need to focus on now? And certainly, for me, part of my values is that I want to be a good dad. I want to spend as much time with my children as possible.
So, that means I’m going to have to make some decisions.
You know what? I’m not going to spend a lot of time managing my lawn or working in my flower beds and those things. Yes, my children will work with me some time, but I’m not going to make that a priority when there’s so many other things that are more important.
So, I think it’s helpful to say, “I can’t get it all done. What can I not repeat later? What is most important now?” And then the other side of that, a mindset change. It’s not just about managing your time.
Many of your listeners do a great job of maybe managing their own time, but it’s in how they work with other people and getting them to meet deadlines, getting them to do the work efficiently, getting them to get their own work done.
Because I’m sure some of our listeners are guilty of saying, “I really need to be giving this task,” right? “This person really ought to be doing this on my team,” but they just don’t do it as well as I do.
Or the last time I gave it to them, they didn’t do so well with it. So, I’ll just do it this time. And when we start having that mindset, then we start taking on more and more and then we get behind in what’s important to us because we won’t look at it.
Okay, how do I help someone else be more efficient, or effective and in essence, managing their time and not only our own?
Okay, so ability to delegate is certainly part of the time management issue in taking or put more and more on our own plate. I understand that.
What about those situations where you can’t delegate but you don’t want to destroy a relationship? Any tips for how to say no tactfully or later? Tactfully? I mean, that doesn’t sound like a Dilbert cartoon.
It’s the most asked question in one of my time management sessions, where again, I’ll put up a slide and you’ll have all kinds of different time management challenges.
And I’ll say, “Okay. If there’s one time management challenge you’d like to get an answer to before we leave today, what is it?” And number one answer, “How do I say no?” And so, I think there’s two things.
One is a short answer, and the other one takes a couple of minutes or not about 90 seconds to unfold. The first one is most people can’t say no, but it’s just not in our DNA. So, maybe you need to condition the yes. Give a condition under which you can say yes.
And so, what I sometimes say is that word that comes after the yes, that’s most important. Yes, I can do that if you help me with this, or yes, I can do this. If you take that off my plate, yes, I can help you with that.
When I finish with this, yes, I can help you with that this time, and could we have a conversation? How about how to keep it from becoming a crisis next time?
So, conditioning the yes. Making it a smaller ask on you, I think, is important part of the process. The second solution that I find works for a lot of people is a technique called the card technique, C-A-R-D.
Very quickly, the C is communicate. When someone asks you to add something to your plate to take on another elephant is what we’d say in our world is communicate your current work or life load.
And that’s not a whining; that’s not a griping, that’s helping them understand. “Hey, my plate is already full, and I want you to understand that.”
So, I’m not saying I’m not going to take this on, but I just want you to kind of know what’s going on in my world because that leads us to the A, ask for help, especially if it’s your supervisor or manager or even a peer at work.
Say, “Okay. You know I have going on now, help me understand where this fits.” That’s the A. That’s the ask for help. The R is request resources.
If you’re going to have to take on all or part of this assignment, ask for a resource of time of getting someone to help you. A space but ask for some resources that’ll make this ask own your time and energy smaller.
And then D is simply determine the level of completion. What is it that they’re asking? What does the finished product look like? When you have successfully completed this task, what do they expect?
Is it a spreadsheet, or is it just a simple document with half a page of information?
Make sure you’re clear about what they’re asking for before you start on the task, because we’ve all had the situations where we’ve created something and someone says, “Oh, wow. That’s a lot more than I’d expected.”
“We had three extra hours working on it.” You’re going, “Oh, if only I had asked first about what they specifically were looking for, I could save myself a lot of time.” So, I think those are a couple of ways we can help make those ask a little smaller and keep some time in our schedule for those other things that are important.
I love those tips. When you read these articles about time management and maybe it’s just because the sources they’re in, it’s like about 800 words. Boom, boom, boom.
But so often it starts off with prioritize, which sounds really great, they just don’t tell you how to do it. And when you’re stuck in the middle because after all, you’re stuck, which is why you feel like you’re juggling elephants.
They all seem equally important. Any suggestions on how to separate and sort it out in a way that makes sense?
In my book that I coauthored with Todd Musig called Getting to It, it being your most important things, we talk about the need to prioritize, and there are several techniques that one can use.
One of them is try to narrow your “its,” your top priorities down to maybe two or three. When people say that they have eight or ten priorities, like you said, nothing is a priority.
They’re trying to spread themselves too thin across all of them but ask yourself if I only got three things done today that would best move my work forward, and my team forward, what would those three things be?
That’s one way. It’s just really to limit the number of things that you call a priority, no more than two or three per day. Another technique is to say, what is that task?
Or what are a couple of those tasks that when I go home tonight and I put my head down on my pillow, I’ll go, “Wow, I feel like I really accomplished something of value today.” What would those two or three things be?
So, I think that’s another technique. Something else that you might do is use a filter. Use a filter of, okay, if I’m trying to prioritize, I’m going to prioritize by deadlines. I’m going to prioritize by window of opportunity or I’m going to prioritize by who am I holding up the most?
Or what’s the greatest consequence if I don’t undertake a task? So, find some kind of filter to help you, kind of as you said, sort through it and figure out what rises to the top that needs to be completed. I think those are a couple of ways we can begin to get a better handle on what really needs to be done.
Very helpful. Thank you. Now this title, Juggling Elephants, it makes me giggle. It really does. How did you come up with that?
Well, the whole back story there and for your listeners is that the idea of the book, Juggling Elephants, is that we need to manage our working life like a circus.
And that we, Todd Musig and I, came up with that first and it was the idea of that we have three rings to our life. One is work, one is relationships, and one is self. You’re the ringmaster of your circus. You’re the one that’s got to make things happen. You got to create the right lineup.
And there’s some other ideas there but we just couldn’t come up with, how do you describe what it feels like when you’re trying to get it all done? And I said, “Oh, if there was just an act in the circus, that would remind us of what it’s like trying to get it all done.”
And we just couldn’t figure it out, and so we kept bantering about it with ideas. And finally, it came to us one day, “Wait a minute. When you’re trying to get it all done, that’s like juggling elephants.”
It’s impossible. It’s heavy, it’s scary, it’s dangerous, and just as trying to get it all done is all of those things. And so that’s where the title Juggling Elephants came for the book.
Well, I think it’s wonderful because when you feel like you’ve got too much to do and not enough time, it’s emotionally crushing. And that’s certainly what happens if you drop one of those balls.
Exactly.
Now, if someone were to read your book, what would be the one thing you’d want them to take away from it?
Oh, thank you. That’s a difficult one. I think for me personally, if someone came up to me and said, “Jones, I read your book,” and what really gets me excited is when they come up and they say, “I understand my life is about more than work.”
That would be one of the things that would probably get me really excited because I think that’s a first step sometimes for many of us, managing our time better, is that it’s not just about time, it’s about energy.
And while all of us completely love what we do at work, and we get all of our positive energy from work, ha-ha-ha, our other two areas of our life, our relationships with our partner, spouse, family, friends, community, and our self, our personal well-being.
They are so critical if we’re going to be able to be effective at our work task and to be able to focus on those high priority tasks that we’ve talked about today.
And so, I just think it’s critical to understand there’s more to your life than just work and you’ve got to take care of all three areas of your life if you want to be successful in any one of them.
Jones, some of our listeners are entrepreneurs and some are even in startup mode, and being in a startup is just totally, totally consuming.
What advice would you have for those folks or the entrepreneurs that want to be the next Google that are looking to expand, to scale, to grow massively, grow exponentially?
What advice would you have for them with regard to time management?
First of all, congratulations to them. We certainly need more individuals like that who are willing to step out and take risks. The first advice I would have to them is that to understand that any one moment their life is not going to be balanced.
We use the phrase a lot, work-life balance.
But entrepreneurs certainly teach us very quickly that you know what? There’s going to be a period of imbalance. When you’re in startup mode, you may be working 18-hour days and spending very little time taking care of yourself or your family.
And that’s okay for a short period of time.
But then you need to begin as those that window of opportunity on something you’ve created when you can take a breath and you’ve got to start making your family and your own well-being a higher priority and take care of those kinds of things.
So, it’s okay to be unbalanced for a short period of time, but not for a long period of time. The second thing is manage the minutes as effectively as you manage the hours.
Entrepreneurs know they have to spend lots of time focusing on growing their business, but sometimes, it’s those minutes.
If they could find 10 minutes in their day or 15 minutes in their day, and by doing something more efficiently or delegating something to someone else, whether that be through outsourcing or finding some other source to take something off their plate, I think it’s very critical to say, “Okay, how could I work less on this?”
How could I find 10 or 15 minutes? And then knowing what you would do with that time that would help you be more effective as an individual? And then finally, I think you’ve always got to name your elephants.
I think you’ve always got to be saying to yourself, “What’s heavy to me right now?” I love your phrase a moment ago, emotionally crushing. I think it’s important, especially for entrepreneurs to be saying, “Okay, what’s so heavy to you right now?”
What’s so heavy to you that you can’t focus on what you really want to be working on in your business and what steps can you take to make that elephant smaller? And it includes some of the things we’ve talked about today.
Very good, but I can still hear some of these listeners through the airwaves here say, “But I just can’t.” They’re maybe working in a culture, or they’re just so personally driven that they’re constantly in hyperdrive.
Is there one tiny little thing they could start doing today to start feeling more in control and just ease the burden a little bit? Is there one suggestion you could make?
Listen. We’ll get to easing the burden in a moment. The first question I would ask that group, and it’s a very simple question, it’s this. In your struggle to get it all done, what’s not getting done?
In your struggle to get it all done, what’s not getting done? Many people who are so driven falsely believe they are getting most things done but there’s something that’s not happening, or there’s something not happening well, and you struggle to get it all done.
What’s not getting done or getting done well? I think they’ve got to find some pain. Okay. What is the pain? You say you’re not getting everything done. Well, what’s not getting done?
And so, once you begin to answer those questions, then you can begin to decide, “Well, is that really something important to be done, or is that just a personal preference? Is it because of my perfectionist tendencies?”
What is it that that’s not getting done, and does it really matter based on what I believe is important for me as far as a small tip to help ease the burden?
And I do this in my time management training sessions with individuals, and I force them to give an answer to everybody at their table or who’s sitting beside them. Think of something that you know you need to delegate transfer, automate, or drop.
That would save you 10 minutes a day or 30 minutes a week, something you need to delegate transfer, automate, or drop. That would save you 10 minutes a day or 30 minutes a week.
And when I say automate, what’s something that you could mentally put on autopilot so that it would create some more space for you?
A terribly small example, but I think this is important is having the same thing for breakfast every day. If you want to get creative with breakfast, do it on the weekends or do it when you’re not on a day when you’re not working.
But have the same thing for breakfast every day. Limit your wardrobe so you don’t stand there going, “Oh, what am I going to wear? What did I wear two weeks ago?”
What are those small choices that you can make that will mentally free up some space for you to begin to think more strategically and not using that mental energy for things that are just not important?
If your family struggles to – if you’re one of those people who has a family at home and every time you leave work, you’re going, “Oh, what are we going to do for dinner tonight?”
Take the time on the weekend to schedule what you’re going to have for mealtime during the whole week so that you don’t have to leave work and go –
Oh, you can leave work and go, “Oh, wow, I know what we’re doing this evening,” but look at ways to automate some things in your life so you don’t have to think about them.
So, you can use that that mental emotional energy for those more important things that you’re trying to accomplish. So, those would be some of the places I would encourage those very driven people to start.
Terrific. That’s something we could start doing right away. So, thank you for that and thank you for these other powerful tips.
I think they’re really valuable and hopefully, people will be able to start implementing it and make their life a little bit better but I’m curious about the people or things that have made your life a little bit better. Can you share an influencer with us?
Absolutely. When I hear that question, I think of an individual by the name of Dr. Richard Swenson. He wrote a book called Margin, M-A-R-G-I-N, and that book was just incredible, and it completely changed my thinking about how I look at life because the whole idea is that we all need margin in our lives.
We need room for the unexpected things.
And if you think about those unexpected things, one of those things you can’t schedule. Well, you can’t schedule sickness; you can’t schedule when a coworker really needs your full attention because they’re struggling with something.
You can’t schedule your daughter, or your son wants to talk to you or want you to be available to them, to play with them, or do something with them. You can’t – there’s so many things that are not scheduled.
And if we have our lives so full of activity, we’re not available for those things that just kind of pop up or spontaneous. And so, it just radically changed my beliefs about how we should look at life.
Not that we shouldn’t work hard and be goal oriented, but that we have to be careful filling every moment with activity because we don’t leave room for those amazing, important things that just kind of show up on this journey. So, that would be the one for me, Hanna.
Thank you, Jones. I appreciate your time and the important work you do in helping people improve their time management skills.
And if you’re listening and would like more information about Jones Loflin, or his book Juggling Elephants, that information, as well as a transcript of this interview, can be found in the show notes at BusinessConfidentialRadio.com.
Thanks so much for listening. Be sure to tell your friends about the show and leave a positive review. We’ll be back next Thursday with another episode of Business Confidential Now. So, until then, have a great day and an even better tomorrow.
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