On The Reins Of A Family Business With Vincent Curatola

Building a family business is tough, and handing over the reins of a family business can be even more challenging. Join host Hanna Hasl-Kelchner as she welcomes Vincent Curatola, who shares some practical tips for navigating it successfully and protecting your family legacy along the way. Hear his remarkable story.

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WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER ABOUT FAMILY BUSINESS:

• The backstory of his 3-generation family business.
• The perils of fast money.
• How to protect the legacy of your family business.
• The key to business sustainability.
• The story of the Wall Street trader.
• The impact of his sudden celebrity on the family business.
• And MUCH more.

GUEST

Vincent Curatola is a Commissioner on The New Jersey Hall of Fame, appointed by New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. Vincent also served on the Governor’s transition team. For the past 10 years, Vincent has also served as a member of the Foundation Board at Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey.

If his name has a familiar ring, there’s a reason for it. Vincent Curatola is also an accomplished actor.

If you’re a fan of the award-winning HBO drama, The Soprano’s you’ll remember him in his co-starring role as Johnny “Sack” Sacramoni. You’ve probably also seen him guest star on more than a few primetime network series including Third Watch, Law & Order, Monk, Life on Mars, Person of Interest, BlackList, The Good Wife and Law & Order SVU where he regularly appears as Judge Al Bertuccio.

On the big screen, he’s co-starred with Brad Pitt and James Gandolfini in the crime thriller, Killing Them Softly. He’s also played Boston Mayor Minnino in Patriot’s Day with Mark Wahlberg, which was aired in  theaters at the end of 2016.

But, even if you did recognize his name, you probably didn’t know that he was a successful entrepreneur long before we saw that piercing look of his and heard that distinctive voice on camera. Yes, indeed!

Vincent has experienced firsthand what it’s like to build a family business from the ground up and to successfully transition it.

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RELATED RESOURCES:

Contact Vincent and connect with him Twitter. Also connect with his family business.

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On The Reins Of A Family Business With Vincent Curatola

Handing over the reins of a family business is one of the toughest decisions an entrepreneur has to make. It is a real mind field. Our special guest has some practical tips for how to navigate it successfully and protect your family’s legacy. He is Vincent Curatola.

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Vincent Curatola is a Commissioner on the New Jersey Hall of Fame, appointed by New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. He also served on the Governor’s transition team. For the past number of years, Vincent has also served as a member of the Foundation Board at Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey. Where else do you know that name from? It has got a familiar ring. If you are a fan of the award-winning HBO drama, The Sopranos, you will remember him in his co-starring role as “Johnny Sack” Sacrimoni.

You have probably also seen him guest star on more than a few primetime network series including Third Watch, Law & Order, Monk, Life on Mars, Person of Interest, BlackList, The Good Wife and one of my personal favorites, Law & Order: SVU, where he regularly appears as Judge Al Bertuccio. On the big screen, he has co-starred with Brad Pitt and James Gandolfini in the crime thriller, Killing Them Softly. You will see him playing Boston Mayor Menino in Patriots Day with Mark Wahlberg, which will be in a theater near you at the end of 2016.

Even if you did recognize the name Vincent Curatola, I bet you did not know that he was a successful entrepreneur long before we saw that piercing look in his eyes and heard that distinctive voice on camera. Vincent has experienced firsthand what it is like to build a family business to successfully transition to its 2nd and 3rd generations, which is why it is such a special treat to have him join us here. Welcome to the show, Vincent.

Thank you. That was a great introduction. I appreciate it. Maybe you would like to work for me. That is great. How are you?

I am doing well. It is good to have you here because family-owned and family-run businesses play such a huge role in our US economy. Forbes Magazine says that about 90% of all businesses in the United States are family-owned or controlled and they generate more than half of our gross national product. It is huge. Tell us about your business and how it got started.

Back in the mid-‘70s and late-‘70s, I started my masonry business, a contracting business. My father had a company of his own but it was too big. I wanted to be on my own so I had put an ad in a local newspaper about concrete work, steps and sidewalks. People started calling and then when I got some money together, I went into the Yellow Pages, which is a very expensive proposition. It was built from there and then went on to some custom home builders where we did a lot of huge foundations and very intricate brickwork and stonework. I ran the business for quite some time. Our son, Ryan, expressed an interest in it.

Around the years 2000 and 2001, he had been working for it part-time after college. I had gotten very busy on The Sopranos and said, “Ryan, I cannot do both. I cannot show up anymore and give estimates for people. Do you want to run and stay in this business?” He said, “Yes, I like it.” I said, “Fine, do it.” I have done it without any trepidation and hesitation. He is very good at what he does. If any of you ever watched the series years ago Charlie’s Angels, I am the guy on the phone nobody ever sees but he talks to you. He gives you advice. That is what my son does a couple of times a day.

He calls up, “How about this?” “Did you do that customer years ago? They called again.” I am just the voice on the phone. I never show up anywhere. I love it. I am glad the business is still alive. It has its ups and downs. Election years tend to be a little slow with customers or the weather. There is always a bit of a stumbling block but I tell my son, “You are on your own, which means you can never go in on a Monday morning and somebody says, ‘The boss wants to see you. You are fired. We are cutting back.’ You are your own boss.” It is part of the American fabric. Every one of my family on both sides always owned businesses. We have never worked for anyone. There is nothing wrong with it. It is just that we have always made our paycheck. I am very proud of that.

The internet has changed something because many things go, but it hasn’t changed the basic premise of business. Click To Tweet

This transition to Ryan, did you just go cold turkey?

Yes, I had to. Once I got very busy with the character of Johnny Sack on The Sopranos, you get to a point where you go into the bank, a store or a restaurant and it is very flattering that people immediately recognize you. The last thing I wanted to do was show up in people’s properties and say, “You called us for a price. I am here to measure it for you.” It would have turned into something different. It would have taken away from the moment of the business running the way it should. I felt that I should disappear. That is what I did.

That is amazing because a lot of business owners and somebody such as yourself, who has built a business from the ground up, cannot do that. Losing control is huge.

Ryan was trained by me and certainly trained by my father. We miss him terribly but we feel him here every day. Ryan was always asking my dad for pointers. My father was a master craftsman. He ran a fabulous business, which began right after World War II with 5,700 homes in Bergen County, New Jersey alone for track builders. He always had the masonry contract for it. He would give Ryan a lot of advice. Certainly, I did. It was comfortable. He knew the process. He is a very honest guy and never cuts a corner. We always hold our heads up high with customers. It is as natural as the sunrise. I had no fear about it at all.

Your dad’s business was separate from your own. Did they combine it at some point in time?

He, initially coming out of the army in World War II, went into partnership with one of his brothers. They did incredible amounts of masonry work. I felt that I did not want to work for anyone, even my dad. I said to myself, “I know a little bit about this work.” I went and hired someone who knew a lot more about it and started the business. It was very tiny but it was a business. As they say, “You should fake it until you make it.” It became what I wanted it to become.

What advice do you have for other entrepreneurs who, for whatever reason in their career, whether taking on success as you have in another field altogether or maybe want to retire, slow down or pursue other business interests to make it smooth? Not everybody is going to have that same discipline that you had to go through.

It was very easy for me to get into back in the day because there was no real overhead. We owned one truck at the time, a full-time guy and a part-time helper. The biggest expense was advertising. I will tell you a very quick story about someone who I never met but I heard a lot about. I grew up in Englewood, New Jersey. It is a bucolic, beautiful town. A lot of entertainers and captains of industry lived there. I saw them all as a kid but I heard a very fascinating story that in 1974, there was a terrible recession in America. Half the population remembers it, the other half has never heard about it.

 

There was a fellow who at the time of 1974 was 31, 32 years old. He was working on Wall Street. He was a stock trader. He had a lovely wife and two very small children and bought a beautiful little house in Tenafly, New Jersey next to Englewood. From what I understand in a week, 1,200 or more traders were laid off in 1 shot on Wall Street by all of the major firms. There was not enough work for them. Remember, this is a time with no internet. Your resumes had to be done by hand. Who are you going to send the resume to?

Everybody else laid everyone else off. There was no work for this fellow. Here he was in his early 30s, home every day. What could you do? You watch television and the two little children are off to school. He was extremely depressed. He had some money put away because he was a logical fellow so he was able to live for close to a year on whatever he had put away but he was getting worried. He had a friend that he had gone to public high school with who had become a handyman. Not a college guy, not a book guy. He would come over to this fellow’s house once in a while and say, “You got to get out of the house. You get up in the morning and stay here. You are depressed and driving your wife crazy.”

The wife said, “Please, go. Spend some time and take a walk.” His friend said to him, “Tomorrow morning, I will pick you up at 8:00. We will go down to the diner and have some coffee. Come with me on my ramps.” This is a fellow who had a station wagon with a ladder on top. He would go and paint someone’s gutter. He would fix someone’s screen door. He was always trying to keep himself busy. This fellow went with him on the first morning, “I do not want to do this. My wife wants me to get out of the house. I will come with you.” He was sitting in a station wagon and watched his friend do whatever he had to do, Mrs. Jones’ house, Mrs. Smith’s house, whatever it was.

He says,” I will pick you up tomorrow morning.” “Pick me up tomorrow morning. I will sit in the car again.” It was the 3rd or 4th morning. His friends had to put a ladder up against the side of a garage roof and he is watching him. He said, “You cannot do that. Let me get out of the car. I have to hold the ladder for you. You are going to kill yourself.” He held the ladder. He said, “Can you hand me the paintbrush?” “I will hand you the paintbrush.” After a few weeks, this guy had a brainstorm. Let’s go back. The only way you could advertise in those days is to put something in the AMP with a telephone number.

He said to his friend, “I smell a business here.” The other fellow said, “I just do it to make a day’s pay.” “No, I smell a business.” They printed up flyers. In those days, you mimeographed them. They put them all over creation. People began to call. A motel and a restaurant would call. “We need cleaning. We need the chandeliers cleaned. We need a little bit of paintwork in the kitchen.” This was 1974. In 1982, the two of them sold a maintenance company for $12 million.

They sold their client list and the contracts that were in place. This is from a flyer in a supermarket. This is from putting flyers in people’s mailboxes that are behind this screen door. When I hear that you have to go to college, put 300 years and then graduate school for another 200 years, you cannot make a good living. I left. It is a bad ambition. It is not about anything else. That is a remarkable story and is 100% true.

The internet has changed something because many things go through but I do not think it has changed the basic premise of business. Those overnight successes take how many years.

When you do the work, for some strange reason, more work and dollars come. I do not have any friends who were school teachers but from what I read, I do not think that entrepreneurship or Horatio Alger for that matter is taught in public schools in America on any level. That is a shame. Think about people who go to the Wharton School or Harvard School of Business. They are trying to learn how to take $0.25 and turn it into $1. As far as I am concerned, no Ivy League school can teach you that. If it is not in you, you are lost.

When you do the work for some strange reason, more work comes, and more dollars come. Click To Tweet

Most of them are not being trained in those MBA programs to be entrepreneurs. That is a pretty recent development. They are being trained to join the big consulting firm, those large organizations that are looking for people to fit in.

Even if you look at Donald Trump, he called up the mayor of New York City years ago. In Central Park, the city is trying to build an ice skating rink and it was taking 100 years. This contractor did not show up. The other one jumped in front of the other one. The plans are not correct. He called up and said, “Mayor, I could get this done.” Trump went in and after a couple of months, it was over. I am giving you an example of a businessman. This is a guy who makes his decisions. There is no committee involved. When committees become involved in anything, it takes 1,000 years to get done. There need to be more people who are independent thinkers and who are hands-on. That is what you need.

You need more people to say, “This is America. There is no limit unless you limit yourself. I can do this. I can try that. Someday I will get what I want. That will be good for me, my family and future generations.” Look it this way, how many immigrants came here from God knows how many countries in the 1920s, ‘30s, ‘40s and ‘50s? They did not know anything. They knew that if they went to the wholesale vegetable market at 3:00 in the morning and bought a whole bunch of stuff, by the end of the day, they would double their money and look at what it has turned into for so many families. That is the essence of America.

The American dream. My parents lived it for sure.

Family businesses could be great or horrible. Some families should never be together daily under any circumstances. When it works, it works well.

That is the challenge because especially family businesses are the backbone of this country and economy. It is so important for them to have a little extra guidance, some tips and strategies so that Thanksgiving does not turn awkward. You got all these dynamics happening.

There is such a thing too as being overly educated to the point where you are paralyzed and cannot make a decision on your own. You are in trouble because if you overanalyze, the moment passes.

There is a difference between street smarts and book smarts. Some people cannot tie their shoes so there is that issue. You got to be practical about it. It is always good to be able to combine skillsets. Family businesses have unique challenges but by the same token, it is also a tremendous strength if you can harness that.

 

Also, Hanna, when a family starts in a business, whether it is the 1st generation handing to the 2nd and then to the 3rd, the trick is you have to put something away for a rainy day. Many times, a father and mother hand a business to a child, a girl, a boy, whatever it is or siblings. Right away, this one wants to buy his house. The other one wants to buy a new boat. The other one wants to go to the islands every three months. You have to keep some money in these businesses. You cannot just suck them dry. If you will turn around one day and it will be raining real hard, you will be broke.

Statistically, many businesses do not transfer well to the second generation. Experts are saying that less than 1/3 survive the transition from 1st to 2nd generation. Less than half of what is left over makes it to the third, which is why it is so remarkable the kind of planning that is necessary. Certainly, setting aside the proper accounting processes so that you can save for a rainy day is important.

There are a lot of rainy days in business when you are on your own. There is no question about it. Nothing is easy. You never have twelve months of ecstasy. There is always a third of those months or a quarter of those months where you say, “I have to pay this bill. Do I have to pay that?” Every business is seasonal. I do not care what it is. You have to be prepared for it.

Let me ask you this. Have you noticed leadership style differences between you and Ryan as Ryan is in charge of the business?

No. He is a carbon copy of me in the sense that if he smells what we call a bad job, he will not even quote it. There are times when the human factor comes into play. You can go to propose something that a customer has asked for and get a feeling that there were 100 contractors there before and nobody got paid. Ryan is very astute when it comes to that. I taught him that. He is able to read people on his own. He could tell if somebody wants to spend $1 or if they are just wasting time. In the sense of the way he treats his crew, we are identical.

You could finish up the day at 12:30 AM, those guys are getting paid until the end of the day. It is goodwill. The human being sees the same way. We can finish each other’s sentences when it comes to this business. I am very happy about that. He is very precise. He does not cut a corner. Neither did I. I was not trained that way. If I have to go to China for six months, he will still call me and say, “What about this and that?”

That is great that you can be there as a sounding board for him, as a board of advisors. Also, he wants to reach out to you. That is also very commendable and says a lot about your leadership style.

Thank you. I am very happy about that because Ryan does not have an ego in the sense that, “I know how to do this. I do not get a piece of advice from my father.” That makes me feel good. That makes me feel like I am still alive. It makes him feel that he is making the right decision because it is a very technical business. You could very easily make a mistake. When you make a mistake, it is not like you can repaint the wall. You are talking about concrete, stone and brick. You cannot make a mistake.

This is America. There is really no limit. You can do this you can try that, and someday you’ll get what you want. Click To Tweet

You want to measure twice.

Always. Three times, even.

Vincent, I am going to get personal here for a minute. You have had an interesting career, building your business and this whole other side of you. In terms of what makes you tick, what advice, person, event or experience has been a big influence on your life and career choices?

When I was very little, my memory starts at around the age of four. For most of us, it does. I can recall many times being in the store with my mother who was my mentor. She died very young and I was young when she died. She would catch me mimicking the lady working in the store or the man walking down the street, “Vincent, that is not polite. I do not do that. Do not stare.” “Mom, look, I could walk the way that man walks.” I was a mimic as a kid. I did not know that that would be a prelude to becoming an actor. My mother was very outspoken but in a good and modest way. She taught me to be the same way, as did my father.

It is strange because it was the masonry business that gave me the impetus to be interested in acting. You deal with so many different types of people. You could be giving a proposal to a guy that owns a $64 million building or somebody who owns a $200,000 little house. You have to adjust your speech, attitude and demeanor because you want to make them feel comfortable. That had a lot to do with the ability to play different characters in my career.

Some people do not seem to master that in the sales process or their networking process to make a connection with someone.

I always felt that if someone left a message on the answering machine for the business and they need this or that, it is incumbent upon you to, at least, treat them with respect and make them feel comfortable when you go to see them. Maybe they are interested in baseball but you are not. “Did you see that game?” “I missed it.” “How do you want the sidewalk print?” You have to muscle and massage it. Not that you want to be a phony. I do not mean that. Make them comfortable.

You have to make them feel like there is a connection with you. Back in those days, I smoked cigarettes. If they were smoking and standing outside and I am measuring the retaining wall and the steps, I would buy the cigarette. I can say, “We have something in common. We both smoke.” All kinds of little gimmicks that you use to make someone comfortable and hope that you are comfortable doing it are the most important thing.

 

Be authentic with them because if you are going to work with them, you got to at least like them.

In those days, a job might last five days. You are with them for five days. It might last 1 month or 1.5 days but you are right. You keep meeting new people and for them to hand you their money for your goods and services, there has to be some feeling of at least minimal comradery. There has to be something because you are there selling the job. They already want the job done whether they are going to give it to your company as someone else’s.

We already know they want it done. The question is, can you get it and make a living doing it? Personality comes into play because otherwise, you will go robot. You can go there, be very rote about everything and say, “It is going to be in this direction, 4 feet or 20 feet that way. Here is the price.” Who wants to talk to someone that way?

Some people do that. A friend of mine told me a story about they were having somebody quote them a lawn service. The guy came in and did exactly what you said, “Here is the price.” Somebody else came in and said, “Tell me, what is important about your yard?” They seek problems. “You got the job.”

I would do the same thing as the customer. It makes a difference but I will tell you something. Going back to the family way of doing business, the Asians are incredible. You go through Manhattan and there are 4,500 corner groceries run by Koreans or South Vietnamese, whatever they are. They get this business because they are paying an enormous rent, $20,000, $25,000 a month. They worked 24 hours a day. The whole family, the mother, the children when they were old enough all work in the store and all live in one house for the first 4, 5, 6 and 7 years. They pool their money. They make sure the landlord gets paid.

They have to pay for their provisions. Nobody takes quota at it or a dime. Before you know it, that business has $1 million in the checkbook. You are rolling. A lot of American kids who go into a family business are not willing to not be paid. I am not saying you should not pay them but minimally until everybody gets their feet tracked into the ground. That is an American problem with American family businesses. They want to take too much out instantly and it does not fly.

You need to have some good financial sense. What you described is the classic American dream. The opportunity is there. It does require work. It does not happen on its own. It requires persistence and some self-sacrifice, even if it is for the short term to get over that hump and get that thing rolling. It does take that.

Wishing does not make itself. There are a lot of slow times. My business was in existence during the recession in the mid-‘70s and then it got a little better. There was a horrible recession in 1990. That lasted a good four years. Things were quiet. Staring at the phone, “Is it going to ring?” It is not an easy thing to do but in the long run, you do come out ahead. You have to understand that a lot of the people in my background and friends of my family from years ago, which were mostly Italian immigrants, said, “Someday, I am not going to be able to run my business anymore. My son does not want it. I am going to get old.”

This is America. There is really no limit. You can do this, and you can try that, and someday you’ll get what you want. Click To Tweet

Over the last number of years, my wife and I bought three two-family houses. You are not going to be working anymore. You are going to be fine on the first of every month. You have to think that way too. It cannot be about buying cars and taking too many vacations. You have got to have something that is going to pay you every month. That is very important.

Smart investments are what it is all about too. You see these professional athletes and they are doing so well. All of a sudden, they are broke and homeless.

Without a doubt. I do not know how you gross $30 million, forget to pay Uncle Sam and left it up to your accountant. There is no such thing. The accountant called you and said, “You got to put $100,000 aside.” “We will do it some other time.” It is your fault. You tell the CPA to do it. He did not do his own. That is a malarkey story. You hear it a lot in show business and then in the sports business. It is crazy.

Do you have any final thoughts for our readers?

This is America. If it could be done anywhere, it can be done here. Do not play and buy into the negativity that someone has to be approving of you for you to make a decent living in America. Think about being on your own, even part-time. When you retire, think of doing something on your own but realize that it can be done. That is why so many people come here, Hanna. It started with Ellis Island. Everybody wants to come to America. Everything you need is here. Do not get discouraged. Do not say, “After we find out who is going to be elected, we are going to take care of the patio.” Do it now. There is nothing to fear. Everything is fine.

This has been terrific. Thank you so much for your time and insight.

I appreciate it. It was nice of you to think of me, Hanna. I will talk to you soon.

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Important Links

• Vincent Curatola
• New Jersey Hall of Fame
• Twitter – Vincent Curatola
• His Family Business – Acuratola
• Simple Ways To Conquer The Elephant In The Room With Diane A. Ross – previous episode
• If you liked this interview you might also like these family business episodes