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Start-up success is every entrepreneur’s dream. But how do you make it happen?
Is there a secret ingredient, some magic formula?
Today’s guest, Jan Cavelle took her start-up to over $10 million in sales and in today’s episode she’ll break down her process into bite sized pieces we can all digest.
What You’ll Discover About Start-up Success:
* How financially bootstrapping your business can contribute to start-up success
* Why investors are not fairy godmothers
* The role of the customer persona in start-up success
* Why purpose matters to start-up success
* The basic building blocks of start-up success and SO MUCH MORE.
Guest: Jan Cavelle
Jan is an entrepreneur from the UK who has a few decades of running entrepreneurial businesses behind her. One she started from the kitchen table when her children were small and she was a single mother, to go on to build that into a multi-million turnover business.
She also promotes entrepreneurship through campaigns various and her books Jan has put her entrepreneurial experiences together with her passion for writing together a book aimed at helping entrepreneurs to grow their businesses during the big leap of 1-10m. The book is called Scale for Success and is out in UK, US and Australia, published by Bloomsbury and her second book, Start for Success: The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Start-ups was just released earlier this year.
Related Resources:
If you liked this interview, you might also enjoy our other Start-up Life episodes.
Contact Jan and connect with her on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
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Keys to Start-up Success with Jan Cavelle
Start-up success is every entrepreneur’s dream. But how do you make it happen? Is there a secret ingredient, some magic formula? Well, my next guest took her start-up to over $10 million in sales. And when we come back, she’ll break down her process into bite sized pieces, so stay tuned.
This is Business Confidential Now with Hanna Hasl-Kelchner helping you see business issues hiding in plain view that matter to your bottom line.
Welcome to Business Confidential Now, the weekly podcast for smart entrepreneurs, executives and managers looking to improve business performance and their bottom line.
I’m your host, Hanna Hasl-Kelchner, and today I’m delighted to welcome back to the show, Jan Cavelle. The last time she was here, she regaled us with tips from her book, Scale for Success, sharing the journey of her business that started on her kitchen table as a single mum – yes, she’s British – while her children were young, and building it into a multimillion-dollar turnover business. Now, today, she’s back with her latest book, Start for Success: The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Start-ups, and I’m looking forward to hearing more about it. So, welcome to Business Confidential now, Jan.
Hanna, it’s absolutely lovely to be back. Thank you so much for having me round again.
Well, it’s lovely to have you, Jan. [Laughter] You did very well starting your business on a kitchen table. And we know that some entrepreneurs, like Steve Jobs, are known for starting out in their garage.
Available at fine brick-and-mortar and online booksellers
Yes, it is very popular.
Yes.
So, do you think that humble beginnings are a secret to start-up success?
I think that’s an interesting question. I think that it’s got a lot going for it because for a variety of reasons. I mean, I’m a great fan of bootstrapped businesses. It’s become terribly, you know, “Oh, well, where do I raise investment for my business?” As if it’s something that has to happen. I remember speaking recently and it’s something I wrote or were mentioned in the book to somebody on social media on put a call out saying, “Where do I find investment?” And I asked them a couple of questions and I said, “Well, you know, have you considered bootstrapping?” And “You’ve obviously never run a business in your life.” And I’m, “Well, actually, I have and, you know, it is an option. I’m not saying it’s for everybody, but it is not…” “Oh, rubbish. You don’t know what you’re talking about.” It’s got that bar that people think investment is an absolute essential when it’s not. You know, you can use your garage and keep everything low, and it teaches you great fiscal controls while you’re building up. I think it’s well worth considering, especially in these times.
Yes, I couldn’t agree with you more because, you know, it’s one thing to say, “Oh, I need investors.” It’s like, great, but they want to see your credentials and what do you bring to the table to make sure it’s a success because they’re not giving out money like candy. You need money, yes, but where it comes from is a different question. And an investor is only going to invest if there’s a return on their investment. And that may not be easy for someone in a total start-up mode to demonstrate these –
You know, and it’s of course, investments got a lot tighter, too, with people being wary of the future, and also it’s changed so much. You know, we used to look at investors wanting to make long term plans and assess all this. Now, they are only interested in your plan for sort of maybe one year or three years, absolute maximum. Nobody talks of 10-year business plans anymore because nobody knows what the next 10 years is going to hold, you know. So, it’s a very changed market, the investor market, I think. And that means pretty quick returns for them to be worth remotely investing in.
Yes, and I think some people ignore the fact or forget the fact that an investor is going to want some element of control. [Laughter] So, you know.
Yes, they do. I mean, a lot of them will try it on for a lot more control than you want to give away. But they do want some control. And strangely, however much I mean, some of them have good interests at heart, but they still want to make money, and that shocked some people. [Laughter]
Well, yes, because they think it’s the fairy godmother handing out money, you know?
Yes. [Laughter] Absolutely.
And investors – oh, absolutely. So, you know, a lot of times people come up with business ideas when they’re sitting around with friends, having a few beers and a pizza, and it sounds great at night, but then in the light of day, it doesn’t always hold up. So, for those who have the entrepreneurial itch, where in your experience does success begin?
Research every single time. Well, I suppose actually, let’s go back. One, it starts with somebody getting over that fear and think I am going to give it a try. You know, you don’t even have to give it a try full time; you can do it part time, whatever. But, you know, unless they take the first point of action, then it’s never going to happen. But assuming they’re doing that, it starts at research, and it’s amazing how many entrepreneurs, even experienced entrepreneurs, forget that. They get this business idea in their heads and they’re so excited and they forget to talk to their customers and find out what the customer wants, whether the customer’s remotely interested in what they’re doing, and what the pain points are and all those things. And they end up spending a fortune on maybe some fancy tech that they spend, you know, a couple of years building, and it doesn’t connect with the customer at all. So, it’s got to be research.
So, research, we’re talking about pain points and what were the other ones? I just want to be able to kind of recap that.
Absolutely. I mean, we are talking pain points and we’re talking, you know, actually connecting with the customer’s needs that the customer is going to want it sufficiently badly that offerings got to be really clear.
You know, it can be a lot of people make it quite fussy. So, nobody knows quite well, you know, it might do us some good, but we’re not really sure what’s going on. The customer needs to know what problem it’s solving, and that’s got to be put across in the marketing and the website. And that problem that it’s solving has to be something that people really want solving.
So, what’s the best way to go about doing that research when a lot of times people think, “Oh, everybody could benefit from this, you know? Everybody is my customer.” How do they narrow that down and get their feet back on the ground, Jan?
It’s by a lot of hard work. I mean, you know, they can hire companies to do it, but I mean, that’s pointless for a start-up. So, it’s going to come down to not necessarily hard hardware on your feet in these days of the internet, but certainly much time spent talking to them.
You know, if you don’t, you’re absolutely in trouble. So, it’s a question of going where your customers are. Join forums where they are, go local networking where they are. Don’t talk to the whole world. Narrow that down as quickly as you can as to who you as those customers are. It’s the same as marketing. Don’t try and sell to the whole world. Find out where the ones you are going to want to sell to are and just talk and just get to know them. Get to know what their likes and dislikes are. Get that really clear customer persona in your head, and then you might start getting an idea of what they’re going to like, what’s going to emotionally connect with them, because the marketplace has got even more crowded than ever, and it’s all about the emotional connection there. If you don’t emotionally connect with that customer, you’re pretty lost.
That’s good advice. We’ve talked up to now about looking at the market and seeing if the market has a need for what you like to be able to provide. But let’s look at the other side of the table. How does somebody know if they’re really cut out for entrepreneurship and especially start-up success?
Yes. I think that’s it’s also become terribly fashionable, wasn’t it?
Oh, yes.
With lots of misconceptions. Rather like you are going to find some fairy godmother with, you know, millions that it’s going to invest in some idea never tested. So, you know, there are all these misconceptions now and a lot of people do find it a nasty shock. I think the best thing you can possibly do is talk to people who are other entrepreneurs, because I don’t think people who aren’t entrepreneurs really get it. Just as once you’re started, the best possible support system you can have is a group of other entrepreneurs.
You know, your partner, your family, they look out for you. That sounds horrible. That’s a brilliant idea. But they won’t, you know, they’ll be supportive to you, but they won’t fully understand the problem. You know, when you’ve had a horrendous day, when your customers have done something awful, when you’ve got something badly wrong, then it’s other entrepreneurs who have been through it and will really get it. So, I think, you know, that whole network is essential from as early as time as possible, and even when you’re toying with it, you know, if you can go to places they are. The word “tribe” is used a lot in conjunction with entrepreneurs, and I think there’s a good reason for it. You know, “Are you a member of this tribe?” Or you know, “Does it fill you with joy, however bad it gets?” Or is it “Well, what’s going on here? I don’t fit in with these people.”
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, you’ve had your own journey as far as start-up success goes, which certainly gives you the credibility to talk about it and I appreciate that. In your own experience, what were some surprises that you encountered on that start-up success journey that you hadn’t anticipated?
Well, I was going to say success, actually. I don’t think I ever thought in the early days that I’d succeed. As I think we probably discussed before, I was so ignorant and I was so back to the wall trying to feed the kids but, you know, actually large success never crossed my mind. People didn’t do that on the whole point in time. So, I think the biggest shock was actually what happened. But apart from that, Hanna, I would say the fact that it got so much harder with growth, you know, I thought, you know very well we were doing pretty well and quite successful. You know, everything was going very smoothly and making fairly decent money out of it. And, you know, then growth made it so, so much harder because we didn’t have experienced people. We didn’t bring experienced people who were used to bringing businesses on board at the right time when growth really started to take off, and I think that’s a huge mistake and can give you very nasty shocks because you certainly won’t have experienced that before if it’s your first business.
Well, you raised an interesting point about how you defined your business success. You know, in hindsight, you’re like, “Yes, this really grew into something huge.” But initially your idea of success was just being able to keep the bills paid.
Feed the kids. Absolutely.
Yes, feed the kids.
Yes.
So how in order to keep going, how important is it, do you think, for entrepreneurs and start-ups and especially when they’re looking at start-up to success to define the different landmarks on their journey?
I think it’s certainly crucial for them to have a clear reason in their mind as to why they’re doing it. I think that’s possibly got over romanticized, and so, you know, I’ve got to do something amazing with my life. I’ve got to be very special. I’ve got to give back. So, but the entire world changes, you know? Yes, sure. One or two people managed to do that and they are fabulous people who were all in awe of, but, you know, your average start-up may do a bit of good, and it may well be for a reason of just feeding your family or something fairly prosaic. But you’ve got to create something special that also is worthwhile at the same time. I think that’s one of the early challenges too, that you sort of morph into a worthwhile enterprise. So, I think that’s essentially what you’ve got to take.
It’s rather like having people work for you. You know, they say the secret is to take money off the table, you know, pay them enough so that that’s not a pain point so that they’re not thinking, “I should jump ship.” Because, I mean, let’s face it, if somebody is offered 10 times, 100 times more money, they always will jump ship. But if they if they’ve paid enough to feel valued and a bit more than maybe your next-door neighbor, then they’re not going to worry about money. They want other things to go with it. It’s the same, I think, with the business. You know, if you’re reaching your financial goals, there’s got to be more to it to keep you motivated.
Very good. Well, let’s talk about your book for a second here. Maybe a few more seconds. Start for Success. It’s an entrepreneur’s guide to start-ups.
It is.
What are the basic building blocks – I don’t want you to give away the whole book. But, in terms of what does somebody need to think about. Even if they’re starting it sort of as a side hustle, they still may have a full-time job, but there are certain basics that need to be included for start-up success. Help us out.
Sure. I mean, I wanted to take it right back. You know, we do talk about the fear aspect. For example, people, you know, do. I mean, I wonder how many good businesses have never happened because people are too frightened, which is quite sad, and I don’t think if you possibly can, fear should stop you doing things in life. And then we move on, and we’d talk about marketing and sales and financing. They have bootstrapped all the other ways you can go about it and creating a team and all the sort of basics that go with creating a business. And I try and emphasize throughout that, you know, if it’s a one-man venture, that’s great. You know, if it’s going to take off and fly and be the next Coca-Cola – I think Coca-Cola in trouble, so possibly not them, but you know what I mean. It’s great. It’s whatever you want. It’s your business. Don’t let everybody else dictate what that business should be. I think that’s so important.
So, would that be your biggest takeaway from the book and for start-ups?
I think so. Yes. I mean, you’re going to have to work really hard and, you know, unless it’s what you want, so many people will tell you not to do it because for whatever reason, because their own opinions, interests, whatever. They’ll tell you how to do it. And, you know, that’s vastly different from going on a course to learn X, Y, and Z. It’s important that you are really clear in your own mind why you are doing it and what you want out of it.
So, the vision to be clear about the vision. Does that sound right?
Yes and, you know, your long-term goal. Are you going to create this thing for short term to try and make a lot of money? Or are you going to get out after a long period or you’re going to keep it forever? And always have a B plan because you don’t know what’s around the corner.
Well, what about that B plan? I mean, how much can you really expect?
Well, you just don’t know. I mean, we were saying to earlier that, you know, even investors now know things are changing so fast. It’s very difficult to anticipate what’s going to happen in business. So, it’s important to have a B plan. It’s important to keep a business in a way that, if the unexpected happens, it can either be at worst, closed down cleanly or sold ideally. And that means putting in place good systems and structures and people from early on, which is hard to do because it’s such fun being chaotic when you are a start-up. It’s part of the reason people enjoy it. So, all the, you know, boring stuff which entrepreneurs don’t fancy doesn’t get done quite often, which damages their chances of having a sellable business later on. Far better to get somebody on board from the start who is really good at the admin side and runs all that beautifully because it triples your chance of having a valuable business.
You just free up the entrepreneurs time from all that busy work, which they’re…
Absolutely.
…not crazy about.
Yes, exactly. And you know, if you kind of put the effort in and start your own business, why would you want to do the bits you hate? [Laughter]
That’s true. That’s true. But it could be just letting go, you know, the control factor?
Yes. There is an element of that, very true. But I think most entrepreneurs are quicker to let go of that side. It’s just they feel they ought to do it themselves because nobody knows a business as well as they do.
Or could do it as well as they do, right? So, perfection –
Yes. Actually sometimes, yes.
Perfection is the enemy of – it’s good enough, right?
Oh, isn’t it just? Yes, absolutely. Perfection is dire and we all fall into that one.
Yes, absolutely. If you had to distill based on your experience and you know, the work you did in writing your book, if you had to just boil it down to one thing, Jan, that you think is absolutely crucial for start-up success, what would it be?
Clarity. Clarity of what you’re going to do and why? Definitely.
Terrific. Super. Well, Jan, thank you so much. I appreciate all you do to help start-ups be successful and scale their businesses.
And if you’re listening and you’d like more information about Jan Cavelle and her books, Start for Success or Scale for Success, those links, as well as the contact information and transcript of this interview, can be found in the show notes at BusinessConfidentialRadio.com.
Thanks so much for listening and please be sure to tell all your friends about the show. Leave a positive review. We’ll be back next Thursday with another episode of Business Confidential now. So, until then, have a great day and an even better tomorrow.
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